Pregnancy (and other conditions relevant to food safety) and closing questions

Question

I'm curious about the close vote for this question.

I absolutely understand why the question is bad as it was posed: we cannot know why this particular woman made a particular request.

However, I'm uncertain about whether the question would still be unacceptable (and "off-topic") if it were even slightly reworded. Wouldn't it be acceptable if it were just changed to be something like: "As a caterer/chef, I've had requests from pregnant women not to serve soft cheeses. Is serving raw soft cheeses a food safety concern?"

According to the major U.S. and Canadian food safety sites -- like the USDA, FDA, and CDC -- unpasteurized soft cheeses are in fact a significant food safety concern due to Listeria bacteria. While unlikely to affect most healthy adults, listeriosis can lead to major complications and can be life-threatening for pregnant women (and others with compromised immune systems). (Hard cheeses do not provide a good growth medium and are not a significant concern.)

The reality is that soft cheeses in the U.S. are required to be pasteurized when sold commercially. On the other hand, I know many people who make soft cheeses at home using unpasteurized milk. From that perspective, it is in fact a safety concern for food preparation when considering whether to serve those cheeses to pregnant women.

And, of course, there are plenty of places around the world where it is legal to sell unpasteurized soft cheeses.

As I said, I understand why this question as asked is bad. But just by editing a few words, would it not be an acceptable food safety question? If so, why was it closed so fast rather than edited? And if not, why not?

EDIT: Some of the discussion to this question has suggested that I'm claiming the issue is only about pasteurization, a topic not even brought up by the OP. It is NOT. The fundamental distinction pregnant women are taught about is generally soft vs. hard. Please note, for example, the detailed list given by the UK's NHS. The page identifies three categories:

1. Hard cheeses, which are always considered safe (even if unpasteurized)
2. Some soft cheeses, which are still safe if pasteurized
3. Other soft cheeses and some softer blue cheeses, which are NEVER considered safe by some organizations regardless of whether they pasteurized or not

Please note that the cheeses specifically mentioned in the question fall into group (3), i.e., cheeses that may be considered unsafe for pregnant women regardless of pasteurization state.

This is NOT a question about pasteurization. It is a question about soft cheeses (which are a good growth medium for certain bacteria) vs. hard cheeses (which are not). I have NOT "read into" the OP's question: every fact he mentions is specifically in line with Listeria concerns for pregnant women regarding soft cheeses.

Answer 1

The question as asked didn't even seem to be a health OR food safety question to me; it basically boiled down to "Why won't this person eat this food?". Maybe it was because of the pregnancy, maybe she's partially lactose intolerant, maybe she just hates soft cheeses, maybe it's because she's on some diet or another, maybe it's because she's a Martian and they explode when given soft cheese. We can't guess someone else's mind.

Answer 2

Perhaps there may be formulations of that question which would have been acceptable... but we are under no obligation to read the posters mind. There was no hint of pasteurized or unpasteurized as the core issue. There was no hint that foods not considered generally safe were under consideration. The core issue, as clearly stated by the OP, was the pregnancy.

The question was saying, from a set of foods generally recognized as safe, why are some foods contraindicated for a specific condition? That is a question for a doctor, not a cook, in my opinion.

If someone asked, what foods should not be served to someone with chicken pox or Lou Gehrig's disease, or whatever, I would vote to close those as well.

We don't do health questions, distinguishing what is more or less risky, such as whether fattening foods are bad in general. I don't think we should take them on in more specific cases.

If it isn't a clear issue of food safety in the general case, to me, it is out of scope for this site.

That, at least, is my personal view of it.

Answer 3

The real core subject of the question seems to be about "popular understandings of food safety, and the scientific/legal truth or untruth behind them". I can see how this would be relevant to an amateur or professional cook or chef, given he has some responsibility for the eater's safety, and should answer such concerns responsibly and correctly...

Answer 4

My basic view is that if a food safety issue is common enough to be a concern for the average "normal" healthy person at some point in their lives, and will affect food preparation, it should be considered a "general" food safety concern and thus reasonable for inclusion here.

I absolutely agree with SAJ14SAJ that we should not be offering general medical advice or targeted medical advice for various illnesses and conditions.

On the other hand, the standard food safety advice given by major organizations (FDA, USDA, CDC, in the U.S., other organizations in other countries, etc.) often differs for "normal" healthy people in various circumstances.

To my mind, pregnancy seems to fall in a similar category to questions like this one, dealing with botulism risks in honey for small children, which are rarely an issue for adults. In that question, we're dealing with standard food safety advice for a standard normal healthy person who just happens to be an infant or small child. Is it much different for a standard normal healthy woman who just happens to be pregnant (as most women will be at some point)?

I think I understand some of the reticence to cover such issues: there is a lot of wacko advice out there for pregnant women in particular, and we don't want to get into subjective questions. Personally, I think the Listeria situation regarding soft cheeses is a little overblown, after I researched such issues thoroughly a few years back. In a way, I'm actually advocating publishing information here that I personally disagree with. But it's the standard information offered by major food-safety organizations, as I linked in my question.

And I'd say this could be one way to separate out the off-topic or unanswerable opinion questions from the valid ones. Just as with most food safety questions, we generally follow the standard advice given by places like the FDA, USDA, CDC, etc. If we can't find clear guidance on such sites, the question should be considered one of "opinion" that we can't answer (and thus probably off-topic).

By the way, for this particular question, I agree that it may have been difficult to discern what the OP meant. On the other hand, the combination of pregnancy and a distinction between soft and hard cheeses is a reasonably clear indicator that we're probably dealing with Listeria concerns, given advice described on the websites linked in the question. (I've personally heard a number of such requests given to caterers and chefs.) As SAJ14SAJ pointed out, the issue of pasteurization never came up in the question, though in my experience it often doesn't in such cases: many pregnant women are afraid of ALL soft cheeses, particularly in restaurants and catered events where the provenance is less certain.

Regardless, the ignorance of someone asking a question should not be an impediment to our attempts to try to help him/her. Many times those asking a question can't identify the relevant details of a situation until we prod them for clarification.

Answer 5

@ SAJ14SAJ and @Athanasius also.I wrote the inicial question. My question was sincere and needed answereing I believe. My inicial question was headed with perhaps a misleading title "Soft Cheese and The Pregant Bride" and for this title I beleive the question was closed without the question being realy read. Surly as Athanasius has mentioned the question should have been edited and not closed.The question was quite clear and very food related. I had a wedding meal to prepare, one of the specs on the function sheet was that the bride was unable to eat soft cheeses such as brie, camembert, goats cheese etc and could I have hard cheeses available for her cheese plate course. As Head chef of the Hotel I was asked by numerous staff why she was only abe to eat soft cheese and not hard cheese, and was the fact that she was pregant relevant or a coincedent. I was unable to answer their questions and nor was I able to ask the Bride as of course she had other more important issues to address. Bacteria, pasturisation and other good sugestions were given but nothing very difinitive. I sopose if the question had been put differently or left open longer , well who knows. But this is food related , it is also a Health matter also as are many common matters that take place in the kitchen. SAJ14SAJ I can see you feel quite strong about this, but please read between the lines in this one